Chris Prokop: Canada's Propane Export Boom, the Montney Advantage & Why the World Is Knocking

Is the world quietly turning to Canadian propane—and is Canada ready to meet the demand?

In this episode of Power Struggle, recorded at the Global Energy Show in Calgary, Stewart Muir is joined by Chris Prokop, Senior Vice President of Export Development and External Affairs at AltaGas, to unpack one of Canada's most underappreciated energy success stories.

From Ridley Island in Prince Rupert to demand centres in Japan, Korea, China, and India, Prokop explains how AltaGas built a propane and butane export business that now ships 40% of Canada's propane — and why the world keeps asking for more.

They discuss:

• Why LPG matters far beyond barbecues—cooking, heating, petrochemicals, and daily life for billions. 
• The RIPET terminal, the REEF expansion, and what's being built on Ridley Island 
• Canada's shipping advantage: 10 days to Asia from Prince Rupert vs. 28 from Houston and 35 from the Middle East 
• The Montney's liquids-rich geology and the natural synergy between LNG and LPG production 
• Why Canadian producers can fetch $90 a barrel for propane in China versus $30 in the United States 
• The Strait of Hormuz, energy security, and India's pivot toward Canadian supply 
• How propane could replace wood and dung cookstoves in millions of homes across the developing world 
• Regulatory reform, First Nations partnership, and how AltaGas built in Prince Rupert without controversy

This is a conversation about energy, infrastructure, and a window of opportunity Canada cannot afford to miss.

At a time when allies are reaching out for secure supply and global energy demand keeps climbing, Canada's west coast position has rarely mattered more.

The question is no longer whether the world wants Canadian energy—but how quickly Canada can deliver it.

#PowerStruggle #ChrisProkop #AltaGas #PropaneExports #LPG #CanadianEnergy #PrinceRupert #Montney #EnergySecurity #LNG

The energy conversation is polarizing. But the reality is multidimensional. Get the full story with host Stewart Muir.

Reach out to us with thoughts, questions, or ideas at info@powerstruggle.ca

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Transcript

Welcome From Global Energy Show

SPEAKER_01 0:13

Welcome back to Power Struggle. I'm Stuart Muir, your host. Today I'm in Calgary, Alberta at the Global Energy Show. My guest is Chris Prokop. He's Senior Vice President of Export Development and External Affairs for a company called Altagas. It's doing some incredible stuff in export development for Canada. It's a fascinating story, and I'm really happy to have him as my guest today. Chris, I really appreciate that you've been able to come on PowerStruggle. Thanks so much. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. Yeah. The Alta Gas story is absolutely fascinating. I've been following it for years now. You know, you built out on the west coast of Canada, but there's so much more going on. And I'm hoping this episode of Power Struggle can be a chance to hear what the Alta Gas story is all about, where you're trying to go, where are you building the company, where the opportunities for growth are, what markets you're

Propane As Everyday Global Energy

SPEAKER_01 1:05

serving. But I want to start with this question because Alta Gas is best known for being in the propane business. It's got some other things, but propane, a lot of people, when you hit they hear that word, they think uh gas bottle barbecues. Is that what propane is all about?

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Not everything. Yeah, I talk about my that's one of my kids all the time. We go camping, and you have those Coleman stoves with a little propane bottle, and we plug it in, and they joke that dad's a propane salesman and sells that. But but propane, like anything, is energy. And it's important for people to be able to live their lives, cook their food, uh, powering vehicles, et cetera. So when people think about Canada, they think about natural gas, and we have these extensive in Canada, United States, we have these extensive pipeline systems that take natural gas uh to the East Coast, to everywhere that you can use to for heating your homes, um, cooking your food, etc. But that's not everywhere. So even in Canada and North America, there's farms, et cetera, up north that need energy. So propane you can put into a canister and you can move it easily because it liquefies under pressure. So it's a system of getting that energy people need for their day-to-day lives in a uh transportable container. So if you think about internationally in Japan, Korea, et cetera, they don't have the extensive natural gas uh systems as well. So it's a fundamental energy source they use for, again, daily life things that we take for granted here: cooking food, heating homes, powering vehicles, like butane is used for powering forklifts. So it's it's it's a small part of the energy mix here in Canada, but it's a massive part of the energy mix internationally. And right now, the world wants more of our energy. Uh, Japan, Korea, China, et cetera, and also India with all the recent disruptions. So it's a very important part. And we call it LPGs, uh liquid petroleum gases. So that's propane, butane. It's a fundamental energy source for people living their lives. But of course, we look at it as it's for a barbecue, right? Unless you have a natural gas hookup. Or or it's for a uh a camping stove with our day-to-day life and calorie, et cetera. But it's more fundamental than that around the world and even in North America.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

Is it just for for uh heating and cooking or are there

LPG For Plastics And Industry

SPEAKER_01 3:30

other uses?

SPEAKER_00 3:30

So there's other uses for it too. So so butane uh specifically is a petrofree use for petrochemicals, for plastics, uh for fuels, et cetera. Propane as well. So it's broader than that. It's used for so many different things that we use in our daily life. And when you get into the plastics conversation, I mean that's massive, right? Everywhere we turn, there's something that's made from plastics. So these propane butane, it's a it's a fundamental ingredient for all these things that are surrounding our lives.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

There's just so much going on in the world of Canadian export fuel, especially where you're doing it from on the west coast of Canada. And it's also a world of change. This is the season when we've had the Strait of Hormuz blow up. It's changed a lot of things. I want to find out in a minute whether it's affected your business outlook. And also we are seeing the emergence of a mature Canadian oil and gas export sector in a way never before seen. But long forecast, it's arrived, and you're part of it. Last November, you walked me around the Altagas site in Prince Rupert at Ridley Island, where I got to see the first of the three accumulators. These are giant containers, and I want to hear a little more about that, but I'm still, you know, looking back in those pictures because you stand under those things. They're gigantic. We did some back of the napkin calculations there. I figured there was enough propane in that accumulator, you could give a barbecue bottle to every home in Hamilton, Greater Toronto, and Montreal, and probably have some left over. That's how much is just in one of those, and you're putting in

Inside Ridley Island Export Expansion

SPEAKER_01 5:05

three. Um, but why are you building out there in in Prince Rupert? And what are you building? What's going on there?

SPEAKER_00 5:12

So so we started in Prince Rupert. Um, we we knew years ago uh there was Asian demand specifically from China or sorry, Japan, uh, for LPG for propane. So our our initial foothold into this export uh industry was with our Rippet uh tank we call our first export facility. Rippet is the Ridley Island propane export terminal. So we built that first first facility. It can do about 80,000 barrels uh a day, which fills about up to 48, 54 ships a year that head to Japan, Korea, and China. Um, but the demand is so great that we knew that we had additional rights with our partner Vopak to additional land to build an expansion. The Ridley Island Energy Export Facility. And it's impressive. So if you think about uh, you know, just with barbecues, et cetera, the amount of barrels we can do with this new expansion. Uh we can do about 80,000 out of rip it. Uh, with our first uh initial capacity build at Reef, we can do 56,000 additional barrels. We're building our Opti1, which is another 25,000 barrels. And then we're also looking at another optimization to do even more if the supply is there. So it's impressive. It's massive with the accumulators, who are those those massive vessels that hold all the propane. And then the dock we're building is exciting too. It's 1.2 kilometers, but it's all because of the demand around the world. And and what's interesting is that we're doing a significant amount of export of propane and butane for Canada with the supply that we have, but the world needs even more. Um, you know, speaking to companies from India recently who have had outreach to Canada, Canada was never really on India's map um for a source to get energy from because of everything happening with the Strait of Hormuz, it's got et cetera. They're now looking for energy security, so they're reaching out to us. They could use almost everything we have. India could take that. The amount of ships, the amount of cargoes they take out of the Middle East is it's extensive. So they'll do like 30 ships, etc., in a month. Right. We're doing three or four a day, or three or four in a month here out of Canada. So for people to try to understand it, how vast it is, how vast the demand is uh for LPGs around the world, that's how significant it is. So building a facility like that, and we've built it uh fit for purpose for our first initial uh tranches of capacity, but the dock we built, and we purposely built that dock, so it's only going to be used about 10% of the capacity initially, but we also have extra land to look into different liquids, different exports. So that's always been the business for us is looking for new energy sources to export from there. But it all started with this initial understanding of a company from Japan wanted LPG, and that's how we started to learn about it, started to build it, and then initial contracts. And when we first started uh looking to build Rip It and looking for supply, one thing that people need to understand about uh LPG in Canada is it's not something that you wouldn't drill just to produce propane and butane on its own. It's all on the back of the desire to get natural gas to create LNG or also to get condensate, which is another liquid, to go up to the oil sands to bring down bitumen. So it's really a byproduct of drilling that wasn't completely used in Canada and would be shipped to the states, or it wouldn't be used at all. It will be put back in the gas systems.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

That's the the magic of this when you think about the resource that we have in Canada. And I think there's very low understanding of that. And I think uh, you know, uh even in senior political office, the story hasn't reached everyone yet. And I I don't think the public knows the the interconnections. And that's one thing I hope in today's episode we can drill into so that everyone gets away uh uh so that everyone uh comes away from this with a better understanding.

Supply Basics And Canada Price Concerns

SPEAKER_01 9:06

One thing I just want to touch on before we d dive deeper, Chris, is uh you you mentioned that there's enough propane for Canada, and then on top of that, you can export to other places. Is there anyone concerned that there won't be enough for Canada and maybe prices go up here because you're exporting all the propane to other places? Is that an issue at all?

SPEAKER_00 9:25

There isn't right now. Um, because there's the the the Canadian market, I mean, it's not a massive, massive market on its own. It's not like we're displacing propane, butin that you would use. So a lot of, like I said, a lot of propane before we came on the scene and had this export optionality. And we do about 40% of Canada's propane we export now. So is your one company, also? Yeah, one company. Right. Um and and so it's not yeah, there's not a concern right now because there's not enough of it going. There's not enough of a need here. And before we came on the scene with the export in the international market, much of it was just sent to the United States. Almost all of it, if you wanted to make a decent dollar off it, and a lot of it was kept here, but a lot of it just wasn't used.

unknown 10:09

Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:09

Or again, you wouldn't drill for it, or you might put it back into the natural gas system and it would be used as part of that natural gas mix, or it would be flared off, much like ethane. There's such an abundance of ethane in in Alberta with drilling that there's so much of it that the market of it is so low.

SPEAKER_01 10:24

Right. So the bottom line is we have plenty of propane and these other products you mentioned. We don't need to worry about consumer pricing source supply.

SPEAKER_00 10:31

We we don't have plenty. Like there's not an uh an inexhaustible amount because it all depends on drilling activity, which you brought up, the the drilling down into it. With drilling, but yeah, but there's there's so much of it that there's not a concern right now that there's not enough to go around, particularly if we keep it in Canada and then ship it internationally where we get the best dollar for it. If you're not sending it down in the United States where you're getting a good price, which is really the same as the Canadian market, there's not really that shift. But there is there is a supply issue at some point where it's all driven by drilling for LNG, drilling for condensate, drilling for natural gas. But there's lots right now. Yeah.

Montney Liquids And The LNG Flywheel

SPEAKER_01 11:09

Yeah. Now, um, let's go upstream to the Motney, because that's where the story really starts in terms of where the resource comes from. And you've referenced condensates, other things. Let's let's break it down. Uh, first of all, for someone who's not familiar with the geology and and the map, uh, what is the Motney? Where is it? And what makes it special? And what how is it different from other places where gas is found in North America?

SPEAKER_00 11:34

So the the Motney is a formation uh in Northeast BC. And what makes it special and what people need to understand is liquids rich. So not all natural gas that you pull out of any different formation has liquids in it. Some of it is dry gas, where there just isn't the liquids. There isn't, there isn't those carbon chains where you have propane, butane, condensate. But the Montney is a very liquids rich. So the natural gas that gets pulled out of there typically has a substantial amount of liquids that can be taken. So you you take the gas that comes out, oil and gas, you process it to break it into liquids and dry gas. Dry gas is what we call that's your natural gas that is used for those extensive uh networks I talked about before, pipelines, sending it out to the East Coast, sending it wherever to heat homes, etc. So liquids rich is the key. So you take the liquids out, you process it to break out the liquids, the NGLs, and then you fractionate it at another facility where you break it into component parts, so butane, propane, condensate. Condensate goes to Fort McMurray, typically around the oil stands area, but then you have your LPGs that you put in a train, ship out to the coast or ship wherever it's going in in Canada or down the United States. But I I think the key to try to understand is that not all gas that comes out of the ground is created equally, and some has the higher concentrating components. So for us, for facilities where we have our processing, and this is the thing too, is we have a whole supply chain. So Alta Gas was uh traditional midstreamer, uh, which is the company that there's the upstream where they actually do the uh do the taking the natural gas oil out of the ground. There's the midstream and there's downstream, which is your gas stations, etc., where they use it to refine. So we're a midstreamer that took natural gas, processed it, and really people would take the dry gas, but then also take the condensate. But we came up with this idea in this market to get a better dollar for propane and butane, which for pr producers is fantastic. Because it's not just a byproduct that's wasted and you get negligible money for. You now get actual now.

SPEAKER_01 13:44

Is it is it quite common to find gas deposits that also have liquids? And like how rare and special is the Montany?

SPEAKER_00 13:51

It's quite common. It is common. It's just that uh some deposits are better than others, and some are typically quite dry and some are quite liquids rich. And that's the Motany. So that's why you keep hearing about the Montani and Montany and drilling in the Montany. And the more that you have LNG, uh the more you need LNG, the more you want condensate, the more you pull out, and the more liquids you have, which can be exported.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

So it really builds on that. That synergy of LNG, let's turn to that. What's happening on the West Coast in LNG that is affecting how you are planning and growing your business?

SPEAKER_00 14:24

Uh it it's pretty simple. The more LNG uh that's shipped, again, leads to more gas production, which leads to more supply for our customers. So we work with um 70 plus customers, aggregators and different customers, all the big names you've heard of Pemina, Akira, et cetera, they're looking to ship their propane and butane, um, which is such an important part of it is this whole supply chain we have, where it's not just our facilities on the coast, it's also the rail that we use to ship from facilities, but there are facilities or others to get it all to the coast. So what drives expansion for us is knowing that there's more supply. So right now, I talked about with Reef, um, the Ridley Island Energy uh export facility. So we had our base where we knew we had about 56,000 barrels of capacity we needed, and we knew we had the supply contracts to underpin that. So then our opti one optimization one to fit into our permits was another 25,000. So we're looking at an optimization two, which could add another 25,000, et cetera. But you need to have the supply for it. So right now we don't have that commercial underpinning, but the more LNG that is that the more basically anything that drives more drilling, pulling more gas out, also drives the ability to do more export of propane and butane, hence driving the need for more capacity for more infrastructure.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

So almost a year now, we've had LNG Canada exporting from Kitamat, and then we've got projects following like Cedar LNG, Sidelistings LNG, wood fiber, LNG Canada Phase Two. When all those are built, what will the impact be on the Alta Gas propane and LPG business?

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Well, well, I mean, we'll keep building capacity uh to fit the ability to take that supply and move it through our system. And and what's really important too about our export facilities is they are open access. We work not just so it's not just altogas barrels, it's barrels of all the producers, like I said, that you've heard of that can come to us, can contract. And we do a lot of our standard deals, our it's basically a joint venture with them, where we do a net back system. And what that means is we ship the barrels that they provide us, we aggregate them in the tank because it's all really basically the same thing. Uh, and then we get pricing from the Far East, which is on an Argus FEI index, it's called. And then we take out the opportunity the all the operating costs, et cetera, plus a fixed cost for us being able to do this service for people. Uh, and then that comes back to the producer. So, so the more drilling, the more, etc., it drives more capacity for the producers who can get the the better dollar for what they're yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:11

Now, in the oil business, I think everyone is familiar at this point in time that having the Transmountain Pipeline allowed Canada to close that gap, which has been as much as what, $15, $20 even a barrel. Is there a something like that with propane pricing in the USA versus these markets?

SPEAKER_00 17:28

Tell

Pricing, Shipping Times, And Logistics

SPEAKER_00 17:29

me if you're not going to be able to do it right now, and this is partly because of uh what's been going on internationally with this straightforward moose. Is is right now uh in China you for a barrel propane, you can get $90, right? You could sell that same barrel in the United States for $30. Wow, so one third. So significant. Yeah. It's significant. And that that's money coming to producers in Canada to Canadian companies that are drilling for this this product.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

Aaron Powell So you can get triple the value, and this is due entirely to LNG being a thing and succeeding the way it is.

SPEAKER_00 18:04

Aaron Powell Well, LNG is a big part of the story, yeah, absolutely. And and and the more drilling there is, and you can see with supply, uh, we look at curves, we have a bunch of data on what the future looks like, when barrels will come online. Um but the more there's the LNG facilities, there's a direct effect on more propane, more betane. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

Yeah. I I'm interested in energy security. We've heard a lot from Korea, Japan. What is it about getting propane from Canada that seems to uh appeal to those countries?

SPEAKER_00 18:35

Aaron Powell It it it's it's it's it's their use again for cooking, heating homes, kind of these day-to-day busin uh things they that all of us need. There's also petrochemicals in China, but but they use it like we use natural gas here. So again, tracking back to that. But what's important about Canada and where we're situated on the West Coast is the shipping time. Right. So for us, it's like 12 days across. So we can get boats across the water a lot quicker. We can meet demand a lot faster than you can from the the um from Houston, having to go through the ship channel, having to go through Panama Canal, or getting it from the Middle East. So for them, we're a secure source that's very close across the water that we're able to get our our vessels to them quickly, securely, uh, across them. So so that's part of the they need a demand um to use it day in, day out. And being able to rely on us as a being as a as opposed to being behold into the Middle East and fighting for barrels with the India, other bigger countries, they've got a great source from us. And then also shorter shipping time, shorting distance keeps the price down, right? Because we we build into our pricing obviously the amount of shipping, uh cost for shipping to go across freight.

SPEAKER_01 19:51

There's a great map in your investor presentation showing the uh travel times from uh Prince Rupert, where you ship from, but also from Louisiana and Texas, and also from the Middle East. So propane getting to where the growth is, what are the comparative times and sailing times and why so it's about 10 days from Prince Rupert across it's about 28 days from Houston. That's a big difference. So it's a big difference. So keeping a ship at sea for uh a day every day you add is more than more money. Yeah. And what about the Middle East? How long does it take them to get propane to say Japan or Korea? I think it's about 35. 35 days. Okay. So that's a huge advantage. Huge advantage. With LNG, it's always been talked about how the lower temperature here means that you don't have to cool the gas. It's not as expensive. Does that apply to propane at all?

SPEAKER_00 20:38

Well, propane you can liquefy just through pressure. Right. So the rail cars we use, uh you don't have to do the liquefaction facilities that you do for LNG. So you see those, they call them trains uh at the facilities where you're actually taking the natural gas, doing it by pipeline, and then it's quite energy intensive to cool it, to, to freeze it, to, to condense it, to put it on a ship and take it across. With propane, you actually it liquefies uh a much uh not nearly as as cold, and then you put it in these pressurized cars where it keeps it liquid, and then we put in a tank with minimal cooling. So it's much easier to ship uh with less energy to cool it. But you don't have to do the liquefaction, the the deep cold freezing. It's it's different because of the the makeup of the uh the product, yeah. Um and that's why you see with those little bottles for coal man or for your barbecue, you can liquefy it without keeping cold, right? It's liquefied.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

Yeah to the touch. Um now, how do you get the propane from where you drill for it to the coast and to the customer?

SPEAKER_00 21:43

So so propane isn't through well in the United States they have uh pipelines. In Canada, it's all by train. So we use we use CN and CP Rail. So we we at whatever the facility is where you're fracturing, creating the liquids, you're putting It into trains, rail cars then take it out to the coast. Right. So the rail cars take it to the coast, they unload into a larger tank that we use. And then we have a pipeline that just goes from that uh that tank to the dock. And then the the there's a loading arm that just connects to the ship and puts it in much bigger holding uh every uh very large gas carrier has four holes in it. So you'll can do two of propane, two of butane. So you just put it in the ship and then the ships take it across, and they have cooling mechanisms within the ships and pressurization to keep it liquid and across.

India, Clean Cooking, And Human Impact

SPEAKER_01 22:35

You know, Chris, we're right here at the Global Energy Show in Calgary. It happens every June. I met the high commissioner of India, the top diplomatic representative. They are so pumped about getting Canadian energy to India. Well, it's the biggest country in the world. They are coming out of poverty. They want to live as other people live in the world, and right now they can't do that. One of the things I've been hearing about, and I I wonder what you you know about it, is the the use of uh dung fires, very smoky kitchens in a in millions of homes there. And it's frankly, women doing the cooking, it's like they're pack smoke it's like they're smoking two packs a day of cigarettes in their home because they're in this smoky situation. It's very bad for health, and it takes more time out of their day. They could be getting educated or going to work or with their children. Instead, they're in their kitchens. The the the president of India has made a big deal out of getting an alternative to this. How could Canadian propane and all the gas plug into this issue?

SPEAKER_00 23:40

Yeah, I I think it's it's it's it's an important issue, and it's shocking and fascinating when you learn about it that that many people are still using wood, cow dung, etc., in their homes with smoke to to cook food, to spend that kind of time with issues, with with health, etc. And it goes back to what I was saying before about you know, we think in Canada, like, oh, there must be a system of natural gas pipelines and and people get their their gas wherever they is, and there isn't. But it's fascinating when you see these pictures, uh, I've seen presentations on it about what people are doing day to day. And like you said, imagine the time and effort if we had to wake up every morning and get a wood fire burning or go out and get cow dung to burn to cook food in an open area in your house where there's smoke.

SPEAKER_02 24:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

You know, in Canada, if you have smoke from uh uh from your stove, the fire alarms go off and everyone's freaking out and your your house smells terrible for for days. But because of the energy we have, we don't really have to deal with that. But imagine dealing with that on a daily basis. So, so again, if you could have a uh canister of propane or butane delivered to your home that you can connect to a small stove, turn it on, and immediately have heat to cook. Time saving, health saving, etc. So I think it's so important for people to understand just how good we have it here. You know, we're so used to energy that we just take it for granted. We take for granted that that it just seems like it should be accessible. Well, we can help with that accessibility internationally. Yeah, we can help by using these, and that's why they want so much of it. Right now we can't meet the demand of India plus China plus Japan plus Korea. The demand is infinite for exactly things like that. Like thinking about that. A million people, and that's not just that's not the top of it, but that's not the cap, but a million people could be cooking their food. Well, that's a lot of demand. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah, it's fascinating. And and to understand that that's happening in this real world where in Canada, in the United States, you know, we're focused on, of course we have energy. You just turn it on. There it is, right? So we're focused on anything, other things and not realizing quality of life that these people want to have that same quality. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

Well, it's a great business opportunity, clearly, absolutely Alta Gas and your shareholders. But I want to know what does it do for Canada? What are ways that Canada can be more influential by having trade partners where we're solving these problems? What are you hearing about that? The interest in building our economy.

SPEAKER_00 26:21

100%. Yeah. I think I think that's what's so exciting right now is that we actually are looking at uh how can we export, how can we be more involved internationally. And I think for Canada, the key is being a partner, be a good trade partner, right? You know, establishing energy security so that we can supply energy to the rest of the world that need it from us. I think if people look at it from that lens, as opposed to just a business proposition or just not understanding, you know, what's the point of drilling for these things and sending it across, like why are we doing that? It's for all these fundamental things of life. And Canada, um, there's a great story there to be able to supply this, to be able to help other people live their lives in the same manner that we live ours. Yeah. And and and we hear about it at these conferences, there's this excitement, but there's a window of opportunity here for us to take advantage of. And Canada, we really need to, we really need to embrace it, right? Have the courage to embrace it, push through and create the system, which will, of course, provide generational wealth for Canada, which is excellent and exciting, but it also provides for people just the ability to live their lives in the same way we live them over here. I think that's kind of lost in this, right? Thinking about it that way.

SPEAKER_01 27:33

The windows open, clearly, right now. Yeah. Are you afraid that for one reason or another it could close? And what are some of those reasons?

SPEAKER_00 27:42

I I think what I'm concerned about, and and you know, in Canada, we can get in our own way. Right. You know, with regulatory, we're always trying to do things the right way. Uh, we're trying to do things perfectly, which can get in the way of, you know, when you're looking for perfect instead of good enough to try to establish these things. I I I worry about can we move forward in a reasonable way? And what's exciting is seeing discussion papers from the federal government about honestly looking at how we can streamline to get the projects we need to export. It's great that we're now partners with industry, with not just the Alberta government, but the federal government as well. That you hear this from Minister Hodgson, you hear this from the ministers. We need to move forward and we need to do it in a smart way to become a good partner to provide secure and safe energy that Canadians we know we can. Yeah. Yeah. So it's exciting. Yeah. And the window of demand is not going to close. It's just going to keep going out. Like, I think that's another piece is people realizing this insatiable demand for energy around the globe. And you have issues where something happens with the Straight of Hormuz where energy security is right at the forefront. Yeah. Like not be only at cargoes where in Korea, other countries, you have schools being closed because there's no energy. We've had outreach from Vietnam where they've just said to us, we we didn't have enough energy stored so we could supply the demands of people here in this country. So we need more of it. The demand's not going away. It's us really making sure that we're creating policies that allow us to meet the supply in a reasonable way. You know, in a in a way that makes sense, in a way that still protects what we need to protect in Canada, and in a way that still, you know, helps us for again generational wealth and being able to live the lifestyle that we like to live here.

SPEAKER_01 29:29

We've had a decade where uh over and over we heard that we were losing opportunities because of uh policies that were getting in the way or slowing things down. Uh where would you say we are right now, the middle of 2026? Are we are we turning that around as a country?

SPEAKER_00 29:44

Aaron Powell you can start to see things that are showing signals that we are turning things around. I I'm I'm quite hopeful for it. Uh I'm bullish on Canada. And I think you're starting to see there's people saying the right things. There's the ministers that we meet with federally, provincially, that get it. Yeah. I I really do think that there's uh there's a there's the right movement moving forward here uh to try to get where we need to be, to be able to, you know, and not just blindly fast track projects, but fast track so it makes sense, right? Fast track so that you can spend risk capital on a project and know that within certain boundaries you're gonna be able to build the infrastructure you want to build. And it's the infrastructure that Canada wants us to build. Um, it's exciting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

Is there one thing that you are hoping is addressed in the short term that will make it easier for your your big dreams to come

Permitting, Partnerships, And What Comes Next

SPEAKER_01 30:36

true?

SPEAKER_00 30:36

I I I think it's it's it's regulation. It's meaningful changes to the way we do permitting, um, meaningful like understanding of of the permitting side, of regulatory side of what we need and and having top government really making sure that everyone gets that. And and for us too as companies, it's it's being cognizant of being really proactive in our stakeholder approach, the way we approach uh First Nations, extremely important. The way we approach the government, making sure that our projects are set up for success for everybody, right? Not just the companies, but success for everybody. Yeah. That we can have a bankable project, reaching out with First Nations, treating them as partners and really giving them a seat at the table to help them and they want to help us to build. You know, it's such an important piece of what's going on. But if you do it the right way and you think about all the partners and you make sure everyone has a voice, you can get your projects done a lot faster.

SPEAKER_01 31:29

Well, and move them forward. Over the last decade, as Alta Gas has developed its growth in Prince Rupert, I gotta say it's a project that no one heard anything about. And I say that as a compliment because so many projects get bogged down in controversy or opposition local or otherwise. But over that span of years when that was being built out, it never really became something that was in the news because someone was opposing it or protesting it. Is it because of the approach Altegas took? Is it because it's propane, it's different, or LPG? What would you attribute that to?

SPEAKER_00 32:02

It it's the approach. I mean, I think um, you know, our CEO Vern used has you said this many times, the the secret sauce of a uh successful infrastructure company is really stakeholder engagement. Yeah, right. It's really penetrating into the markets you want to be in, getting to know all the players, understanding them all, and listening.

SPEAKER_02 32:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:21

Right? Listening to what's important to them, um, and building your projects in a way that's thoughtful for the community. And that's so much a part of our success in Prince Rupert, is the work we did on stakeholder engagement, working with people, understanding what's important, creating jobs in those communities, being thoughtful about how we work with the First Nations, yeah. Um, being thoughtful about it's a project that works for everybody so that when you get to issues around permitting, you're already working with people. You never want to put yourself in a situation where the first time you meet someone, you're asking them for something.

SPEAKER_02 32:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

Right? You get to know them and we actually mean it. We want to understand how we can push a project forward that makes sense for everybody because it'll benefit them and it'll benefit us. But I think we're good at going out, we're good at listening, we're good at understanding, we're good at creating relationships. It's rocky sometimes. It doesn't always go perfectly well, but I think we take it very seriously and we work very hard at it. So yeah. Yeah, I I think that's that's that's the approach for industry too, is it's not just about saying, oh, the regulators need to change the way they do things. It's the way we do things too. Being proactive, understanding that the more you can take care of, the more you can be aligned before you go in for your permits. Yeah, that's important.

SPEAKER_01 33:35

Well, you you've had a really interesting career. Uh, how did you get started in the the field of energy and and ultra gas?

SPEAKER_00 33:42

I I'm from Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. Um, and like anyone from Saskatoon in my vintage, you came to Calgary uh for jobs. I uh I uh have a commerce degree from University of Saskatchewan as well as a law degree. I first came to Calgary uh because there was so much opportunity here. Uh got involved in law firms, uh, worked at a few uh fortunate to get uh uh roles at uh tier one law firms. Um and then I shifted from being in a traditional private practice to working uh in industry. My first stop was at uh Trans Canada Energy. Uh, did a bunch of work with them and joined ventures in Mexico and then had an opportunity at Alta Gas. And what's been great about Alta Gas is I initially was there as a legal counsel, and then there was so much to do and so many opportunities. I moved on the commercial side and then kind of found my niche working in um uh external affairs, relations, stakeholder government. Right. Um, yeah. So very fortunate. But uh, and then just an interest in energy, interest in understanding this fundamental piece of of our lives, right? And and and and really I I think that's the thing about people in Calgary and energy generally is I think so many of us do really believe that we're providing this fundamental life need with energy, right? You know, I think sometimes people think that we're all oil and gas people kind of twisting our mustaches, thinking of how we can make more money, but it's really about providing energy for people so they can live their lives. You know, it's it's an interesting uh industry and it's so important.

SPEAKER_01 35:13

Well, there were times when there were there was that message saying um uh the oil and gas industry needs to go away as quickly as possible. But in 2026, if you look at what's happened, uh um any forecasting of that ever happening doesn't seem to be um coming about. Uh what's really going on in energy use?

SPEAKER_00 35:35

I I think it's just it's just this understanding that that um all along the world needs more and more energy, especially the India example, right? The more you have people that want to cook differently, want to have vehicles, the world just needs more and more energy. It's so fundamental to everyone's way of life. So energy use goes up, and we're always looking for ways to be more sustainable. That's still part of the conversation. Right. Um, heading towards that is important uh as we can move towards renewables, etc. But there's a season where if we can move away, get to cleaner products, it'll take a while to get there. So I think that's still top of mind. But energy use just keeps going up. Yeah, there's just more people. You need more energy to power the way we live our lives.

SPEAKER_01 36:18

So and what would you say is the unique Canadian energy story that the world should know?

SPEAKER_00 36:24

Well, I I think it's just how thoughtful we are at the way we do it. You know, uh, we have the cleanest energy with our practices, environmental practices. Uh, I think the way we work with First Nations, the way we look at things as true partnership. Canada is the best place to get energy because of all that. Right. Uh our ethics are second to none, the way we operate. And we've been doing it for so long, we know so much about it. There's so much technology that comes out of the energy industry because it's people who are being thoughtful about how to do things better and better and better and operate better, operate cleaner, operate more sustainably, um, you know, continue to work on that, continue to have better practices to drive costs down to be able to get more energy to people.

SPEAKER_01 37:07

Now, Alta Gas is a Canadian company based in Calgary, but you own properties elsewhere, so to the border. Could you tell me about that?

SPEAKER_00 37:15

Yeah. So Alta Gas started off with the idea of having kind of the whole energy mix really in one place. So it started off as kind of the three-legged stool of having power generation, uh, the midstream business we've talked about, as well as utilities, which provide natural gas for day-to-day life. Right. Um, so we actually own uh currently utilities in the United States. So it's a mix of almost 50-50 of our assets in Canada plus the United States. So the the main utility is in Washington State. It's called Washington Gaslight. It's been uh the the utility in Washington, D.C. for over 100 years. We actually supply natural gas to the White House. Really? So President Trump uh keeps warm thanks to all together. Wow, uh that's amazing. Because of because of the utility we own, right? Um which is really cool. And then we have a utility in Michigan called Semco. So yeah, so we have a huge energy footprint, but but I think the way we approach energy infrastructure, the way we pro uh approach the provision of energy, in one way it's kind of all the same, whether it's midstream liquids or it's natural gas, uh, the dry gas, the the gas utility systems that we use in the United States. It's it's energy infrastructure. And again, the the secret sauce, the stakeholder, the way we do things. So we try to do that all the same across uh across our whole company. So we understand a lot about the United States, about Canada, and now because of our export platform internationally. So we know a lot about energy, and that's why we'd like to be part of these conversations with everything going on.

SPEAKER_01 38:49

Chris, um, an amazing story. I think we could spend much longer here. That's all time we have today for it. Well, there is the story of Alda Gas told through Chris Prokop. Fascinating stuff and right on the mark for what we're trying to do here at Power Struggle and expanding our knowledge of what makes the world go round when it comes to energy, energy in people's lives, the struggle to develop the energy we need never gets old to me. Stuart Muir, your host. And as you watch this, if you've enjoyed it, please like, subscribe, share. You know what? We're not just in all of the audio podcast channels, we're also on YouTube. You can see the show there as well as hear it. So wherever you are, however you're consuming power struggle, thank you for tuning in once again and uh look forward to next time.