
Power Struggle
Improving the energy dialogue in Canada (and beyond) through honest, non-partisan, and fact- based conversations.
The energy conversation is personal: it’s in our homes, in our hands, and now, it’s in our ears. Power Struggle invites you to listen in on honest, non-partisan, and fact-based conversations between host Stewart Muir and the leaders and thinkers designing modern energy.
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Power Struggle
What is The Golden Triangle?
The Tahltan Nation of northwestern British Columbia is redefining Indigenous participation in the mining industry, with women leading operations and creating economic prosperity through ownership stakes in major resource projects.
• Tahltan territory spans 97,000 square kilometers (size of Portugal) and contains the mineral-rich "Golden Triangle"
• The nation has deep historical connections to mining, trading obsidian across North America before European contact
• Women from this matrilineal society dominate leadership positions and excel in operating heavy equipment
• Economic agreements like Impact Benefit Agreements ensure communities receive fair benefits from resource development
• Chad Day developed "internal reconciliation" processes that create certainty through community-wide ratification votes
• The Tahltan have become part-owners of $3 billion in hydroelectric projects that power their territory
• Cultural preservation remains a priority alongside responsible development
• Future goals include creating Tahltan-controlled institutions for wildlife management and justice
If you want to learn more about the Tahltan Nation's approach to resource development, visit thadu.ca or follow Chad Norman Day on social media.
The energy conversation is polarizing. But the reality is multidimensional. Get the full story with host Stewart Muir.
Reach out to us with thoughts, questions, or ideas at info@powerstruggle.ca
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A lot of people, if they think about mining at all, probably think of it as something that men do Brawny men going down mining shafts or driving trucks, but that's not what we see. It's women from the Taltan Nation. How did this come?
Chad Day:about. It may come as a surprise to a lot of people, but I think for a lot of Taltan it's no surprise to see women doing all the jobs that men can do on the mine site. And when it comes to the heavy duty equipment jobs, I've been told that the women usually do it better and far safer than the men. The tautan nation is a matrilineal society. Every year that I was president, 75 or more of the board of directors was women. My whole life I've known the women to be very successful in all areas of the Taltan economy, including mining.
Stewart Muir:Yeah, it breaks so many stereotypes and it's a fact that mining as an industry in Canada is the best paid. So these aren't just jobs. These are jobs that will pay the mortgage and send the kids to college. It's amazing. Chad Norman Day is my guest today at Power Struggle. I'm Stuart Muir. Chad is the former four-term president of the Taltan Central Government. He's the youngest and longest serving president in that nation's history. He's also got degrees in native studies and political science and law. He was instrumental in negotiating historic agreements, including the first under British Columbia's new act on the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, which came into force in 2019. He's also a passionate advocate for health and wellness. He's raised half a million dollars for health and wellness. He's raised half a million dollars for sports and wellness programs through the Healthy Active Taltans Initiative. Chad. Welcome to Power Struggle.
Chad Day:Thank you for having me.
Stewart Muir:I'm really excited. We've been talking about this episode for a long time. I'd like to start, though, for anyone who isn't aware of what the Taltan people are, where they are. What is the traditional territory of the Taltan people?
Chad Day:So the Taltan nation is up in northwest British Columbia. The northernmost tip actually goes into the Yukon. It's over 97,000 square kilometers, so it's about the size of Portugal, which encompasses about 11% of British Columbia, and we have about 4,000 members. About 20 to 25% live in the territory, with the remaining living outside the territory, mostly in British Columbia. But we have some people in the United States and other parts of the world and Taltan people have certainly continued to be very nomadic in the modern times.
Stewart Muir:What makes the Taltan special?
Chad Day:I would say in pre-contact times we were known to be mining people. We had obsidian at Mount Adsaiza and we utilized that to have all kinds of advantages with weaponry and making tools and we traded that obsidian. They've actually found some obsidian as far south as Florida, meaning that multiple indigenous groups obviously traded it to get there. I assume. In the modern day, I would say, we're well known for being in the mining industry. We're avid hunters, fishermen. The guide outfitting industry actually started in Telegraph Creek where my father was born and raised many generations ago and I think Taltans have always been known to be a very strong, passionate, hardworking, independent people.
Stewart Muir:There's over 200 First Nations in British Columbia. Is there an origin story of the Taltan people?
Chad Day:I've heard a couple variations. I've heard about Siskiyatso, which means big raven, and obviously a lot of indigenous people have a story about the raven and bringing the light and life and things like that. I've also heard stories about sisters coming together at this beach, at the confluence of the taltan and the stikine River, near a rock called Thaddu, which we'll talk about later, and that those sisters kind of decided that they would start up a new nation and I guess they must have found some men at some point, because Taltan people became several thousand and, like I said, today we're still at 4,000.
Stewart Muir:One of the reasons why I was so keen to invite you to Power Struggle and I'm so glad you're here finally today is that the TALTAN have really emerged, in a sense, with a special significance in terms of a lot of strategy that ties to the future of energy, including energy metals and minerals that are in existence in the ground in that area, but also there's some fascinating energy issues on transmission corridors, the use of electricity in mining, but also energy corridors going through the traditional territory or adjacent to it, where there's all kinds of almost globally significant geopolitical issues. I think the first thing that we should talk about is why it is that Taltan are so especially significant, at least in my view, do you agree?
Chad Day:Yeah, very important to the future of the country and to the world, given what's going on with minerals and the geopolitical challenges around the world. So anybody in the mining space certainly has heard of the Golden Triangle and should have people that they turn to to better understand the Taltan Nation if they plan on going through the territory, let alone extracting any minerals or other resources from the territory.
Stewart Muir:Well, that's right. I mean, if you Google Golden Triangle, you'll find that there it is drawn on the maps of mining promoters and geologists and mining companies over the years and it denotes this region where there's an incredible number of ore deposits that are accessible to mining, and this is really what has brought so much opportunity, and maybe other issues, to your community.
Chad Day:Yeah, it's definitely a blessing and a curse at the same time. I think one of the challenges is always trying to figure out, as a Taltan nation, how we control the pace. But at the same time, the mining industry has dominated our economy up there for several generations and it's provided a very good living and livelihood. And as Indigenous law has changed in Canada and British Columbia and we've been able to capitalize on that, the benefits and the independence has obviously grown with every generation, which is a good thing.
Stewart Muir:There's a great example of mining in Teltan territory, that's Redcrisp Mine. What's that all about?
Chad Day:Redcrisp Mine is a copper slash gold mine that's really close to the community of Iskut and every year anywhere from 150 to 200 Taltan are working up at the mine site. So it's obviously a huge economic driver and supports a lot of families throughout the Taltan Nation, within the territory and wherever Taltan people live.
Stewart Muir:I'm going to pull a little clip from a video that's on the Taltan central government's website, the women who work at Red Cris Mine, which I just love that video because it shows something that I think will surprise a lot of people.
Chad Day:I just enjoy doing this stuff. This stuff is pretty cool to do. It's big equipment. It's big equipment, big chunk of iron. It's fun Moving mountains, making mountains. I like it.
Stewart Muir:I've worked in the territory before and it's just nice to be back closer to home, closer to family. It's a community, right, this is a little community and to see family. A lot of people, if they think about mining at all, probably think of it as something that men do Brawny men going down mining shafts or driving trucks? That's not what we see in that video. It's women from the Taltan Nation. How did this come about?
Chad Day:The Taltan Nation is a matrilineal society. Every year that I was president, 75% or more of the board of directors was women and I grew up with very strong Taltan women in my life. So my whole life I've known the women to be very successful in all areas of the Taltan economy, including mining.
Chad Day:My mother is non-Indigenous and my father is the Taltan, but they met mining and she and my sisters have been in all aspects of mining. So it may come as a surprise to a lot of people, but I think for a lot of Taltan people it's no surprise to see women doing all the jobs that men can do on the mine site. And when it comes to the heavy duty equipment jobs, I've been told that the the women usually do it better and far safer than the men. So shout out to all the Taltan women out there yeah, it breaks so many stereotypes.
Stewart Muir:Just love that. And it's a fact that mining as an industry in Canada is the best paid, so these aren't just jobs. These are actually jobs that will pay the mortgage and send the kids to college. It's amazing.
Chad Day:Absolutely. It's an industry that people can definitely make a comfortable living doing. I was blessed to have two parents that were in that industry. My older sisters were in that industry and all you need to do is take a trip into the Taltan communities and you'll see people are doing quite well. There's a lot of big trucks, a lot of side-by-side snowmobiles because, as I said earlier, taltan people really love to get out on the land and are very cultural. But it's a lot easier to use a snowmobile and a side-by-side to do your hunting than it is to get through those conditions and moccasins nowadays.
Stewart Muir:Right. The technology is there, use it. You know I'm fascinated because at Power Struggle we talk about the energy trilemma. You know humanity needs more energy all the time and in the case of Teltan, there you are, in the middle of the golden triangle, the critical minerals that are needed for energy transition, the energy metals, copper being most obvious one, especially in the case of Taltan. It's not trivial what you're doing. We need these metals and minerals.
Chad Day:Yeah, taltan are very advanced in their understanding of the mining industry. As I said earlier, I think the big challenges for the nation is to figure out the pace that we are comfortable with and then also the location and the impacts. We are known to be very pro-mining in a lot of circles, but there's obviously areas that we've said that mining isn't going to take place, like Klapan. There's some areas around Shesley that are very culturally sensitive. I don't think any of the communities want to have mining projects near their communities.
Chad Day:Obviously, redcrisp is quite close to Iskut, but that process started a long, long time ago. Process started a long, long time ago and that's really, I think, the dilemma that Taltan people are going to have to face for years to come is what is the pace and where are we comfortable having these projects? But, as I said earlier, we do have 11% of British Columbia, so there are a lot of areas where TaltTAN can support mining projects and other industrial projects and as long as we come together with the province and industry, I think we can find a good balance and do it the right way.
Stewart Muir:In the headlines not long ago jade mining. What's the background to that?
Chad Day:that that industry is managed like the Wild West. There's no benefits that come back to the Taltan people when a million dollar jade boulder is taken out of the wilderness. And we had tried to find a better balance with the province. They continually ignored us and at the time the board of directors allowed me to take things into my own hands and go out there. And you know we made a video about it, obviously, and continued putting the pressure on, and I think things now are in a place where that industry is no longer going to exist. But that was never my intention. My intention was to make sure that things could be overhauled so that we as Taltan people could work alongside the jade industry and the province to perhaps have the industry continue, but to continue in a fashion that was much more responsible for the environment and continued in a fashion so that Taltan people and the jade industry and the province could all benefit together, whereas right now the province doesn't benefit, the Taltan people don't benefit and it's just not an industry that made sense for most parties.
Stewart Muir:So for things you've wanted to welcome. One of the issues has been providing the energy needed, and there's been transmission line investments that have really brought the modern era to life. Would you agree?
Chad Day:Yes, that was before my time, but we definitely did a big deal when the transmission line came through and it obviously changes the mathematics and makes it far more feasible for a lot more industrial projects to take place in Taltan territory.
Stewart Muir:So that transmission line, the ISCOT line, has brought renewable energy from hydropower to really remote places, Some of the most spectacular landscapes that a person could go to, I think, anywhere in North America. And I wonder is there a price to pay for any disruptions? How has it gone over Like it's created opportunities, it's created new minds. Is this welcomed by Taltan people in general?
Chad Day:Well, as I said, there's 4,000 Taltan people and an elder Jerry Asp once said in a speech that if you put three Taltans in a room together, they'll come out with about five to ten different opinions. So this is why it's so important to have what I call internal reconciliation, which is figuring out processes to create decision-making certainty amongst their own people. And the Northwest Hydroelectric Projects and the Red Chris Mine and the Impact Benefit Agreement on Seabridge and other mining projects, we had a very robust internal engagement and consultation process with our people that ultimately ended in ratification votes from our people. So the first ratification vote that I went through as president was for IBA that I negotiated with our team for the Red Cris mine and that ultimately resulted in an 87% support ratification vote.
Stewart Muir:And IBA is an impact benefit agreement, correct and that flows benefits to the nation.
Chad Day:From the company itself, and then that normally goes hand in hand with some form of a revenue sharing agreement with the province on the tax revenue that is generated from the project in some ways Not always, unfortunately, but you do get a piece of the tax revenue.
Stewart Muir:So the benefits created by these primary investments, like a transmission line, have in fact translated into socially desired benefits for Telten.
Chad Day:Correct. And with the Northwest Hydroelectric Project specifically, we were in the news for buying into that project and breaking some kind of record, because it was over $100 million and we are part owners of these clean energy projects in our own territory and those projects are, I think, worth around $3 billion and that's what feeds the Northwest transmission line. When we negotiate these agreements in the right way and obviously make sure that we take care of the environment and our culture in the process, we can uh benefit, hopefully, on every large piece of infrastructure and project that comes through the territory chad.
Stewart Muir:You travel a lot. You get around the world. How would you compare the telten, say, Indigenous peoples in other countries you've been to?
Chad Day:Without getting to know other Indigenous groups nearly as well. Obviously, I would say that Canada, british Columbia specifically, is definitely leading the way in a lot of aspects of making sure that Indigenous people are meaningfully involved and obviously part owners of some of these projects, and they have IBAs and they have revenue sharing agreements with the province and you don't see that in a lot of other areas of the world. I specifically think about places like South America, where I visited several countries and my wife is from the Philippines and I've seen some of the indigenous groups over there. The arrangements with some of the indigenous people and even just communities is nothing like it is in British Columbia. So we still have a lot of work to do in British Columbia, of course, but when you compare our jurisdiction to a lot of others, we are certainly doing much better.
Stewart Muir:And is there a way to share these learnings internationally, so that part of what we do is we provide the energy and energy products the world needs? We're also part of bringing this positive change elsewhere.
Chad Day:Yeah, we can certainly try to share those best practices. Obviously there's a lot of mining companies that are completing these projects in different jurisdictions, so they know what the standards are in places like Canada and Scandinavia compared to other countries like South America and the Philippines. And I guess it comes down to governments and industry and community members just coming together and figuring it out. But it took us a long time to get to where we are today and I'm not going to pretend to know the complexities of those other countries and those other indigenous cultures.
Stewart Muir:You referenced. Hey, if you've got modern conveniences, use them to make life more convenient, more enjoyable. And you're quite a backcountry specialist yourself. I follow you on Facebook and I am always amazed at some of the spectacular places you get to, and I know you're passing this along to your children in so many interesting ways all the time. But are you afraid that we're at a kind of tipping point in culture and society? With the mobile devices, we have the ubiquitous connectivity where these traditions could just get lost in the shuffle.
Chad Day:Absolutely, and it's already happening. So in Taltan territory we're having problems with the king salmon populations. There's caribou herds in some areas that are almost wiped out and the other ones have been on the decline. Very passionate about predator management. Every clan knew where the wolf dens were, grizzly bears were managed, and today it's very difficult.
Chad Day:It's basically impossible to manage the natural resources like we used to, because we don't live on the land like we used to. There used to be many trails and village sites and clans living in different areas, and now the Taltan Nation lives in three communities, and this is obviously with other Indigenous people as well. So modern technology is nice, but I would say that the province, the federal government and Indigenous people in some instances need to take responsibility on themselves as well. We need to make sure that we utilize those new tools and that new technology to still prioritize cultural resources, natural resources like we used to resources, natural resources like we used to, and I think a really good example is the relationship that we have with wildlife and fisheries populations, because that's not in a good place in British Columbia and it's not in a good place in Taltan territory either.
Stewart Muir:You've talked about how three quarters or more of Taltan people don't live in the territory. They live elsewhere, mostly in North America, in Canada. Do you think there's something that would attract more people back to the homeland?
Chad Day:Yeah, we need to invest a lot more in housing. Part of that is on British Columbia, part of it is on Taltan people as well. We have a Taltan Heritage Trust that has over $100 million in it right now, and when I started 10 years ago it was at about $6 million and we still are not making those strategic investments. But at the same time, one of the issues that we've always had is that the province is able to extract a lot of minerals and a lot of wealth from our territory and we've never seen a fair return on that wealth in terms of the highways, the um, the safety infrastructure. As an example, our largest community of Iskut does not have a RCMP detachment, so if there's ever an emergency there, they need to phone the RCMP in Dease Lake and you'll be lucky if the RCMP gets there within an hour.
Stewart Muir:How far apart?
Chad Day:It's about 80 kilometers, so, again, you'll be lucky if they're there within an hour. There's not a single passing lane on the highway throughout Taltan territory and, like I said, this is an area the size of Portugal.
Stewart Muir:So that's generating incredible wealth.
Chad Day:Yeah, exactly, and we could go on and on about the lack of investment being made into the territory, and I guess this is where you would talk about economic reconciliation and, you know, really taking a deep dive into the numbers. So I think the Taltan people and the province still need to sit down and have a serious conversation about what is the Taltan nation's fair share, given all of the development that has happened in the past and that continues to happen today.
Stewart Muir:Who are your neighbors among the First Nations of the Northwest of British Columbia?
Chad Day:Nisga'a to the south. We've always had a good relationship with them the Kca and the Tlingit to the north, and then there's some treaty eight nations, I guess to the to the northeast. But when I was president definitely had a good relationship with the Nisga'a, casca, tlingit.
Stewart Muir:And that's on both sides of the US-Canada border in some cases.
Chad Day:The Tlingit are on the Alaska side as well, for sure.
Stewart Muir:I have some Nishka friends who always have some good jokes. What's Taltan humor like?
Chad Day:Yeah, I think they're very funny people in the community. When people talk about Taltans, there's such a variety, depending if you're talking about the Taltans that live in Terrace, which is the largest population of Taltans living in one area, versus the Taltans in Iskut, versus Dees Lake, versus Telegraph Creek. So I grew up in Telegraph Creek and I consider Telegraph Creek to be my only home, so when you ask a question like that, I think of the funniest people in in Telegraph Creek. But obviously when you look at Facebook and stuff like that, there's there's funny people everywhere and our elders are very funny. I think when you look at everything some of them had to endure with the residential schools and things like that, I think indigenous humor really helped get them through, and any time that I played bingo with some of the elders or things like that, it's definitely a riot getting those older female elders together. I would say they're a lot more funny and less serious than the men, right?
Stewart Muir:Sounds like a fun time. Would you consider yourself the first generation to emerge into the leadership roles that you've had, that isn't directly at a personal level, under the shadow of residential schools, from your own experience of life?
Chad Day:That's a good question. Under the shadows, my father was a residential school survivor and I think there's been a lot written about the intergenerational aspects and in many cases people were mistreated dearly in the community by other residential school survivors. So I would have a hard time answering that question. I think it still has a significant impact on everybody. But what I will say about my own experience is that I'm extremely proud that my father worked very hard to become a hardworking, proud Taltan man and I never witnessed any of the violence or the atrocities that he experienced in residential school. And maybe I'm lucky that I was born, you know, 15 years after my older sister. I don't know what he was like in his younger days, but I know a lot of our elders, including my dad, worked very hard to become the best version of themselves after having very negative experiences at residential school.
Stewart Muir:So you came out of university, you had a law degree, but you chose not to go to the bar because you had another plan for yourself. Is that right?
Chad Day:because you had another plan for yourself. Is that right? I would say that many TALTAN people had another plan for me and I just kind of caved into that, given what was going on with my life at the time. I had five children while going through law school, which was a lot more challenging than law school itself for me, and when we separated, it put me in a difficult position where I wanted to be in the North with my children and everything just kind of lined up, and there was a lot of pressure from the Taltan people for me to return to the nation and become either the chief of the Taltan band or the president of what was then the Taltan Central Council. So I did a lot of research and ultimately decided that I would run to be the president, and that was only two months after graduating from law school, so I never had the opportunity to go and do the course and apprentice under other lawyers, and then I ended up remaining the president for 10 years until I decided to leave it behind.
Stewart Muir:Well, everyone who knows you knows how accomplished you've been in that role. Do you ever wonder if you had taken a different fork into a law career in the city, what life would be like?
Chad Day:I think about it often, but I feel like I made the right decision because my decision was based on my children and my community, which takes precedent over money and career in the city. I would have loved to have remained in Victoria. I love Victoria and I'm sure I'll spend a lot more time in Victoria in my latter years, more time in Victoria in my latter years. But following the separation and the former spouse and the children moving back to northern BC there, there was no other option. I had to move back to northern BC to be with them and, given the lack of articling opportunities and lawyers that I would feel comfortable working with, it was a pretty easy decision and I'm happy with the decision because myself and the Taltan Central Government team that I built and oversaw for 10 years we were able to do many amazing things and empower so many Taltan people. So I think I did the right thing.
Stewart Muir:No doubt about it, victoria being the seat of government of the province of British Columbia. I know we have viewers in the United States who are curious about what's going on in Canada in different ways. If you had to describe the difference between, say, how tribes engage in the economy whether it's the lower 48 or Alaska, compared to how things are in Canada, how would you explain what's going on with a phenomenon like UNDRIP and the economic success that TELTAN had compared to how tribes do generally in the US?
Chad Day:I don't know the legal landscape well enough in the US to fully answer that question, but I know that it really differs from jurisdiction to jurisdiction in the US. I know that in some jurisdictions in the US it's very easy for indigenous people to open up casinos and they have a lot more flexibility with their economic development than we have in Canada in a lot of respects. But again, it depends on which state that you're talking about and I think the relationship between American states and the indigenous people is very different than Canada, given how the United States became a country compared to a Commonwealth country in Canada. So it's a good question to ask some political science students, but I would need to work closely with more tribes in the US to give you a better answer than that.
Stewart Muir:When you look at the border region between the US and Canada in the Northwest, which is to say where Alaska and British Columbia and the Yukon Territory meet, there's a lot going on there. That's probably out of sight to most people but it looks like an intriguing place. You know we're here to talk about my thing. I'm interested in energy and the struggle for power in people's lives. You know, to solve that energy trilemma.
Stewart Muir:And when I look at this place on the map you're looking at future critical minerals mines that will bring forth whether it's the copper, I think you will find germanium and you'll find other rare earths that are in a special category of what can be mined and it's going to become more and more important to humanity that we can source those. But this border area has been a source of a lot of friction. You know there's some potential mines probably some of them in Taltan territory that are kind of locked into the kind of uncertainties and legal issues that can exist around borders. Do you have any thoughts about how, over the long term, some of the issues will be resolved so that the potential of the Taltan and the Tlingit people in Alaska will be? You know part of that.
Chad Day:Well, I think the Taltan nation needs to stand firm that opportunities in our homeland, we will make the decisions around those opportunities. Ten years being president, I can't remember anybody from the Tlingits in Alaska or any other Alaska tribe, coming to Taltan and asking our opinions about opportunities that they had. We've had a lot of issues with fish because of Alaskans and they never came to us to speak to us about those things either. So I think the Taltan Nation needs to do what our ancestors have always done, which is to be firm and strong with what is ours in our territory. They should be working closely with the province to take a firm stance with Alaska and at the end of the day, we can pursue responsible economic development and I have no problem having a conversation with tribes in Alaska and making sure they are properly informed about a lot of the activities that are happening in Taltan territory and in the province. But at the end of the day, it is our jurisdiction as Taltan people and British Columbians. So that's my stance on it.
Stewart Muir:Chad, you had an incredible first act in your career. Leaving law school drawn to the homeland, it was imparted to you that you had a duty and you stepped up to that and you served in the roles you've recently stepped back from. What's the second act for Chad Norman Day.
Chad Day:Well, the next chapter. I started a company. It's called Thaddeu Consulting Corporation Thaddeoca how's that spelled?
Chad Day:thaduca. But at this point my goal is to utilize my expertise, my knowledge, to help other indigenous people mining companies, companies. I would consider myself an expert with indigenous relations and with really bridging the gap and building those relationships and meaningful agreements and relationships between indigenous people and industrial companies, but also helping indigenous people figure out that internal reconciliation, which I think is something we don't talk about enough because it would be impolite and other groups don't want to talk about it, but we, as Indigenous people, need to make sure that we have internal processes that allow us to make decisions together. There's a lot of talk about consent, but what does that mean? Does consent mean the chief and council and the five to 12 people on chief and council need to consent? Does it mean everybody in the nation needs to consent? And if it's everybody in the nation, who is included in that definition? Is it everybody with Taltan ancestry? Is it everybody that's registered to the bands within that nation? These are all intricate things that are very, very important, that need to be worked out. Even the term nation so earlier, when you had mentioned that there were over 200 First Nations in British Columbia.
Chad Day:Even hearing that, I'm thinking in my head what does First Nation mean to you.
Chad Day:There's nations, there's First Nations, there's groups that want to provide their consent as a band and then there's other groups, like the Taltan, who say we have multiple bands here and we're going to include everybody in these decisions.
Chad Day:So it's that internal reconciliation, working out those internal processes amongst yourselves, because a lot of Indigenous people are struggling to find certainty, the same way that government and industry are struggling to find certainty with Indigenous people.
Chad Day:So that's where I think I could really be useful to a lot of different groups is helping them build those policies, build those processes, build the communication, because the Taltan success story of having these agreements and the economic development and some of the most robust communication processes you'll ever see, there were several arms to that that took a lot of work and that were built on, you know, generations of success and mistakes and learning. So if I can bring that to other groups and help out government, industry, indigenous people my goal is just to make sure that we bridge the gap with all this uncertainty so that everybody can prosper Because at the end of the day, the people in government and their kids, indigenous people, and their kids, industry and their kids, they're all going to the same school, they're all playing on the same teams, they all want to utilize the same hospitals when there's an emergency, and I think this uncertainty holding us back is really counterproductive and I think it's hitting a breaking point in this province that could end up taking us even further backwards if we're not careful.
Stewart Muir:What is the uncertainty?
Chad Day:The uncertainty is what are the processes that we are going to follow to make decisions and uphold those decisions? As an example, when you talk about consent for something as complicating as a pipeline, about consent for something as complicating as a pipeline, industry needs to figure out who are we talking to in order to get consent and what is the process to get to consent, and how do we do this and uphold this? When there's multiple groups, it's a huge issue, and then even leaders themselves are having a hard time internally building processes so that they can make decisions and uphold decisions. Worth the time and the investment to have a really, really robust process where we would go out to 12 to 16 different communities in the territory, out of the territory, online, get everybody's input, make the agreement available to everybody, the draft agreement and then eventually get to a place where you have a ratification vote. And for me, the reason why I'm proud of that process and why I felt that it was the right process is because if something like the Red Chris impact benefit agreement is supported by 87% of the people and then you have 1% or 2% or 3% of the people blockading to shut something down or whatever the case may be, and then the company or the province or the authorities come back to the government and say you know, will you support us?
Chad Day:It gives me the ability to say this isn't personal against the people that are blockading, but what they're doing is disrespecting the will of the nation.
Chad Day:They're not disrespecting me as the leader, they're not disrespecting our government.
Chad Day:They're disrespecting a decision that was made by the people who collectively hold the title and rights and, in my opinion, should collectively be making decisions that have permanent impacts on those collective title and rights and, in my opinion, should collectively be making decisions that have permanent impacts on those collective title and rights.
Chad Day:So there's a lot to unpack there and every group is different, but I do think the uncertainty is around how do we make decisions and how do we uphold those decisions? And until we find that the uncertainty remains and unfortunately a lot of these projects are going to remain on a hamster wheel and that's not good for anybody we need to figure out where can we do business, where can we not do business. And in the areas where we can do business because the Indigenous group is saying this could be open for business we need to have streamlined processes that can stand in the face of scrutiny and so that Indigenous people have the ability to uphold some of their own decisions, because that's obviously become an issue all over British Columbia, obviously become an issue all over British Columbia, and I don't blame a lot of industrial companies for doing business elsewhere. We have a lot of work to do there. So hopefully I can help out, because I think Taltan have done a pretty good job of it.
Stewart Muir:Linear infrastructure that goes across a long area and it encounters different people along the way. It's a little different than a point of industry activity like a mine, which is pretty much in one spot. Do you think it's just more difficult to do anything linear, whether it's a transmission line, Because there's more transmission lines that are going to go to the British Columbia coast in order to meet the demand for green electricity? Right, and they might be, we're hearing just as opposed as, say, a gas pipeline is to the coast.
Chad Day:Yeah, it's definitely more challenging and with every nation they have varying degrees of challenges within their own governance system. So with the Taltan nation you have a central government who takes the lead on title and rights processes and that process is robust enough that the two bands and all Taltan people can buy into that and believe that it has credibility and integrity and, as a result, that process has certainty. But in other groups, if you have a central government structure and they're trying to do what the TCG has done, and then multiple chief and council structures and they don't get along with each other, and then there's hereditary chiefs and sometimes they're not getting along with each other and arguing about who is a real chief and who's not and who's lost their title, I I just can't imagine working in an environment like that as uh, as industry. And that's where you know you need to be able to, to figure out the internal reconciliation first and then hopefully you can work with government and industry. But other times government and industry can help, can help fund that, that internal work.
Chad Day:But it's it's complicating, and something people need to understand as well is that Indigenous people, our population grows four and a half times faster than others and since the COVID pandemic our life expectancy has been lowered more than any other group. So the changing dynamics in our communities it changes much faster and more rapidly. We're having children when we're younger we have more children. The residential school trauma and intergenerational impacts mean we're losing more people. It's a lot to take on. So when you talk about consent and providing certainty and working with Indigenous groups, when there's so many layers, it takes a lot of work and it's not something that you can throw an expert on for three or six months. You're going to have to work with a lot of these nations for years just to help build the governance, build the processes and then hopefully build a relationship to get some of these projects over the finish line.
Stewart Muir:It feels like a mini course that we're getting from your experience today. I'd just like to close on one question. Thinking ahead half a century, what do you think success would be for the TALTAN?
Chad Day:I think the goal is to reflect a true nation's government, to have our own institutions, to have people that have proper training and integrity and checks and balances overseeing those institutions. Things like having our own wildlife department who makes decisions based off of local Taltan and Western science science. Having things like our own justice system so that we can deal with conflicts in an efficient way and so that we can get a fair share of the value of all the minerals and all the resources that come out of our territory, because if we start getting a fair share, we'll have more than enough to revitalize our languages, to do all the land use planning and work that we need to, which would, at the end of the day, provide more certainty for everybody and provide a lot of prosperity for Taltan people for generations to come. So I think that's the goal and hopefully that's what I see when I'm an elder living in Telegraph Creek, like my dad is today.
Stewart Muir:Chad Day. Former president of the Taltan central government. Thanks for being here today, chad.
Chad Day:Thanks again.